Can You Niche Down Too Far in a Service Business?

Originally aired Tuesday, February 10, 2026. Businessing is now a weekly show with a new episode every Monday.

Short answer: Usually not, as long as enough people in that niche want the result. You also need to charge enough to hit your goals with the clients you can get. A narrow niche matches what people actually search for and makes you the obvious choice. Price on the value of the transformation, not your years of experience, and give each audience its own clear brand.

Today's Idea Slam was with Paul Warloski of Simple Endurance Coaching. He coaches cyclists, runners and triathletes, and he wondered if focusing on gravel racing was too narrow. My answer was no, and maybe go narrower, with a funnel from free tips down to one-on-one coaching. We also dug into pricing on value and finding an ownable idea. Before that, I looked at a 104-year-old retailer closing 300 stores and why nobody cares about your history. I also covered a new study saying 59% of small businesses faced a cyber attack last year, with the steps to protect yourself. And with Valentine's Day coming, we brainstormed ways to turn what you sell into an experience.

Businessing is the weekly show where small business owners figure out what to do next, with a new episode every Monday. Hosted by Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community: owners only, nobody pitching, $19 a month.

Key takeaways

• Check whether your niche has enough people who want the result to fill your client list at your price.
• Set your rates on the value of the result you deliver, not on your résumé or years of experience.
• Build a funnel with free tips at the top, a lower-priced offer in the middle and one-on-one work at the bottom.
• Back up your data in two places, turn on two-factor login everywhere, use a password manager and ask about cyber insurance.
• Brainstorm one way to turn what you sell into an experience or gift, not just a product.

Questions this episode answers

Can a small business niche down too much?

Rarely, if enough people in that niche want the result and you charge enough. A specific niche matches how people search, like 'gravel bike coach' instead of 'endurance coach,' and makes you the obvious pick. If it doesn't work, you can always widen back out.

How should a coach or consultant set their prices?

Base your rates on the value of the transformation you provide, not your experience or education. Ask what it's worth to the client to reach their goal, like a personal best or a first-place finish. Then price in line with that.

How can a small business protect itself from a cyber attack?

Back up everything in two places, including one outside your main cloud account. Turn on two-factor authentication for every account and use a password manager. Look into a cyber insurance policy too, especially if you store customer or payment information.

How do I market multiple niches under one business?

Give each niche its own clear brand or site under a parent company. Each one can have its own newsletter and offers, so each audience sees a specialist instead of a generalist.

Worth quoting

in a world of infinite choice, the only thing that matters is a really specific transformation.

Pat Miller on Businessing

Set your rates based on the value of the transformation you provide.

Pat Miller on Businessing

Don't say you are the endurance coach for all racers and do nothing but talk about gravel. If you're gonna talk about gravel, be the gravel guy.

Pat Miller on Businessing

It's not fun to pay. It's not super expensive, but it's way better than getting zapped.

Pat Miller on Businessing

On the show

• Paul Warloski, Simple Endurance Coaching: Endurance coach for cyclists, runners and triathletes who asked whether narrowing his focus to gravel racing was too small a niche.
• Idea Slam question: Should an endurance sports coach narrow his business to gravel racing, stay with everyday athletes, or broaden to all endurance athletes?

In this episode

• Show open
• A 104-year-old retailer closes: nobody cares about your history
• Valentine's Day: turn what you sell into an experience
• 59% of small businesses faced a cyber attack
• How to protect your business from hackers
• Idea Slam with Paul Warloski: can you niche too far?
• Pricing on value, not experience
• Building a funnel and an ownable idea

Watch, listen and join

• Watch this episode on YouTube
• Apple Podcasts
• Listen anywhere
• Small Business Owners Community
• The Small Business Library (add it to your AI tool)

More on this topic: What you sell answers from the Small Business Owners Community

Full transcript

And good morning. It is Tuesday, February 10th and we are Businessing. This is Small Businesses' weekly show. I'm your host Pat Miller, founder of the small business owners community. And our show today is sponsored by our good friends at Gen Head and ng. So on today's show, small businesses are a huge target for cyber attacks.

Now if you think, come on, cyber attacks, no way. There's no chance. I'm too small. Uh, I hate to break it to you. You are one of the main targets right now. So we will talk about the risk of cyber attack and exactly what to do to protect yourself. After 100 years, a familiar retailer is closing and making ridiculous claims as to why they're closing.

And heads up, Valentine's Day is Saturday. You're ready? Right. We're gonna have a discussion about what Valentine's Day can teach us to be a better small business owner. Also today I'm super excited 'cause we have an in-person idea Slam Paul Waki from Simple Endurance Coaching. He's currently focused on the gravel bike market.

He's an endurance coach. He helps people ride their bike on gravel in competitions and get better at it. But he is wondering, am I niched down too far? So we'll talk about that and maybe there's something you can help us with as well. So get your creativity muscles loosened up, and then later today I'm heading to Madison Heck yeah, small business owners community in Person Meetup and new member Welcome Event.

We do it every quarter and I get to go over to Madison today at the American Family Dream Bank, meet some of our members, do another in-person idea slam and um. Yeah, shenanigans will take place. So if you're in the Madison area, make plans to join us at two o'clock. And you need to be more like Michael, let's just talk about this, right?

You need to be more like Michael. You know why you need to be more like Michael? No, not smart and funny. No, you need to be more like Michael. 'cause Michael said good morning and he makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Now, if Michael were doing it right, the next thing he would put into the chat would be his business link.

So that way we can all business with him as well. So if you're watching the show, no matter what platform you got us on, if you put it in the chat, I'm going to see it. And uh, we'll do our best to welcome you to the show and feature as many of you as possible. Oh, and hey, Michael's coming to Madison. Heck yeah.

We'll see you there Michael. Now Business link. Come on, get to it. Share it. Will you, so when you comment, share your business link and we would love to showcase you and what you do. Let's check in on the news, shall we? Okay, Eddie Bauer. Eddie Bauer is closing, and when you hear, oh, Eddie Bauer is closing their stores, that seems to be one of those businesses that, yeah, I remember ordering from Eddie Bauer.

Be I certainly something I have in my clo. I got some Eddie Bauer. That means they're closing, not, I can't believe Eddie Bauer is closing. You kind of know that they're at risk, so it isn't super, um, surprising to me that Eddie Bauer is closing. Good morning, Theresa. Thanks for tuning in. Drop your link.

They're closing 300 retail locations. That's a lot of retail locations. That's a lot of close. And this brand did not get started in the eighties or something. It's 104 year old brand that struggled to compete with on online retailers. That's what they're saying. They're saying we couldn't compete online and.

That's why we're closing. Thank you. Theresa follows the instructions. Gets her link in there. Absolutely. And Michael Rampolla does the same. Fantastic. So they're saying we couldn't compete online. Okay. I get it. That's hard. But then they just can't help themselves. They just can't help themselves. They're not just saying they can't compete online.

They're also saying, and this is a direct quote, they're blaming the pandemic era changes in consumer behavior. That's what they're blaming. The Pandemic Pandemic. Six years ago. Six years ago. Next, uh, week or something like that is when we first found out about the pandemic. You shouldn't be blaming the Pandemic Bauer Eddie Bauer.

You know what you should be blaming? You should be blaming $28 plain white t-shirts on your online website. I pulled that this morning. 100% cotton short sleeve classic T-shirt. $28, $28 for a t-shirt with nothing on it. I'm shocked you couldn't compete online and I'm shocked that that nasty Coronavirus got you.

Dag nab it. That virus got us, uh, $28 t-shirts. I have a feeling that that had something to do with it. So what do we take out of this? It's a wake up call that nobody cares about your history. Nobody cares. You could have had a corporate job being the president of the free world for 110 years and then open your small business.

Really, nobody cares about how long you've done something. Nobody really cares about your client list. It feels good to say, yeah, I work with Fortune 500 brands. Cool. I work with brands from all around the world. Also. Cool. That might get you in the door, but in a world of infinite choice, the only thing that matters is a really specific transformation.

What do you stand for? What's the one thing you do better than anybody else in your space? And can you prove it? Generalists are going away and it's fun. On this particular show, we're gonna talk in the idea Slam Did Paul Niche down too much? That is gonna be a lot of fun to have a conversation on because it's kind of what I'm pointing at here is that you need to niche a little bit, and I'm suggesting that maybe you're not niching enough.

'cause general generalists are kind of going away and if you go to the Eddie Bauer website, they've got a little bit of everything. When you are thinking about what do you do for people, you gotta get clear on that transformation. You've gotta provide it right up front. And remember that nobody cares about you and your story.

They only care about what's in it for them. That's it. Comments going on in the chat as well. Rebecca, Brian, good morning friend. Speaking of T-shirts, hi from your favorite personal stylist at styled with a twist.com. That is how you check into the chat. Be more like Rebecca. Now, Rebecca, you're in this space.

I know $28 t-shirts are not uncommon, but do you see what I'm getting at? Am I crazy here that that's kind of extreme for an Eddie Bauer t-shirt? I'd love to hear your perspective seeing how you are a stylist. And speaking of stylish dudes, come on, Steve. Glenn's here. Good morning, Steve. Thanks for tuning in.

Appreciate it. Drop your links so we can get a chance to give you some publicity as well. So Eddie Bauer, belly up sucks to be them. Make sure that you're clear about your transformation or you might end up following them. Second story in the news, we need to talk about it. Is Valentine's Day weekend a closed circuit to all the partners in the room?

You know, Valentine's Day is Saturday, right? Like, I'm just, just kind of looking out for you. Okay? Little birdie, actually, kind of a tall, bald birdie is saying, Hey bro, Valentine's Day is Saturday. Don't screw it up. There's a report out today from some industry, the industry that tracks Valentine's Day spending.

Talk about niche, talk about narrowing your audience. What do you do? I track Valentine's Day spending. Know what you do. About $28 t-shirts and they tracked the spending. This year they're predicting a $29.1 billion spend on Valentine's Day. Currently they have the total at guys spending $0.1 billion. So in the next four days, we're gonna spend 20.

That's a joke, but is it We're gonna spend $29 billion in the next four days. And one of the things that they say in the report, I think is kind of instructional for us, so I want to dig into it. In the report, they say for those in retail, the average spending is up. And the trend is for experiences, not gifts.

And I think we could probably draw this out to what you do, even if you're not a retailer. Let's think about what you offer your clients and how might we, that's the classic brainstorming line. How might we turn what you do into an experience? How might we do that? So let's brainstorm on that just for a second.

'cause I have some ideas. Okay. I wanna show the chat. Why won't you show the chat? The chat is being finicky and I'm trying to show the chat and it won't do it. Sorry. Chat. I'll come to you in a minute. So how might you think about an experience in what you do? Here's a couple ideas to get you thinking. The classic one is to think about a restaurant.

So instead of having a dinner reservation, which I'm begging to get one as we speak, 'cause I didn't do it early enough, Friday or Saturday night. Instead of doing that on Sunday, when maybe you're normally closed, host an afternoon cooking class where couples can come be the sous chef. You know the whole yes chef bear kind of thing.

Bears and prepare your own Italian meal with the chef and you could probably have six or eight couples in a cooking class charge out the wazoo for it and let them pretend to be chefs on Sunday. Totally awesome. How about, uh, for our friend Mitch at Paul's Jewelers and other jewelers that are out there?

Instead of buying a ring, have a, an evening with a gemologist bottle of wine gemologist and educate them on the different types of precious metals. Doesn't have to be gold, doesn't have to be platinum. Maybe it's gonna be this kind of metal or that kind of metal, and this is why. And help them build a ring that has a story that's hand designed that evening.

Pick out the cut, pick out the jewel, pick out the the metal, kind of draw out what you want. Have this chocolate and wine kind of romantic, heirloom craftsmanship, evening. Speaking of wine, if you sell wine or you're a wine bar, instead of selling just a bottle of wine or having a class. Maybe create a wine club with monthly tastings and each month is read by or led by a sommelier and maybe a native of that region.

So you learn a little bit of the language, a little bit of French sommelier, taste the French wine, go home with four or five bottles, and now you've got date night. You've got an experience. You see what I'm going for here? An experience in what you do, and these are all customer retail ideas. I still think even if you're a service business, you could offer some of this, and it might not be romantic, but it could be really thoughtful.

Let's say you're a copywriter. You write websites for a living or social media for a living. What if you were to offer a co-creation package where the person you love finally gets the novel out of their head and onto paper? It's a workshop. It's a novel workshop where you say to your wife or husband, you've been talking forever.

That's someday. You're gonna write that book. Well now I've got your writing partner and your Someday is today because I love you and the world needs to hear what you think because you're fabulous and great like heartstrings. Perfect. What are you doing? You're writing, how are you packaging it in a different way to turn it into an experience?

To make it a gift? We could do this all day. We can share what you do and we can talk about how we're craving connection right now. People are dying to showcase their talents to be a real person. How can your product become a gift that showcases someone's talent, passions, connection, and experiences? I bet we could do that for everybody. Everybody on this call. We could figure out a way to do it and maybe we'll do that in an upcoming idea Slam. So that is. Coming soon here on the show. Why not? Okay. I am very fortunate that I already have my Valentine Day, Valentine's Day shopping all done. My, my gift is even, it's already downstairs and it's wrapped.

It's, it's beautiful. I really shouldn't have spent as b as much money as I did on a boop. My arm doesn't go any further.

Yeah. Uh, that was Pinocchios nose, by the way. Uh, I, I didn't do my Valentine's Day, but I love you honey. And I will, we all will. Isn't that right? Barbara Meyer. Good morning. Welcome to the show. Let's see. Your Someday is today. That is correct. Michael. How can we make our Someday today? Barbara Meyer, let's talk about you.

Friends of mine went on an adventure vacation in Montana and mined the gems they used in the engagement ring in their wedding rings. Now, isn't that incredible? Every single time she goes like this, that story is going to come out every single time. Absolutely Beautiful. I love that, Barbara. And yes, Theresa, I need to come on the idea slam.

I'm making your wheels turn. Cool. You should. I just changed the QR code in the top left corner of the screen. Snap that QR code and reserve your time. And the way that it works, which is so fun, is you get to snap that QR code and pick a day in time that works for you. And then it's a reserved experience to come on the air and be a part of the show.

In fact, our guest today, Paul Orlowski hasn't logged in yet. So you know what, Theresa, you may get an opportunity sooner than you think. How about that? Let's go into our lead story today. Cybersecurity. Cybersecurity sounds like one of those things that people our size should not have to worry about. I mean, it's me in a bedroom doing okay, got some revenue coming in, right?

We're making, okay, we're making the mortgage. But when we think about cybersecurity, don't you think about Visa and IBM and these massive companies with thousands of employees, but that's not really what it is. We don't talk about. How things could go sideways in our business enough. Traditionally, our business going sideways is because a new competitor shows up or the economy goes to hell or the health of the key man, not gendering, just the key man.

The important person in the business gets sick. So Michael is a one person business. If Michael gets sick, his business is in trouble. Same with me and same with Theresa. See, it's not a man thing, it's a person thing. So like if the key person in the business gets sick, your, your business could be in trouble.

But one of the other risks that we have to elevate to the top is cybersecurity. Because a new study says 60%, 59%, I'm rounding Sumi. 59% of small businesses experienced a cyber attack last year alone. That's a lot of percent. And they didn't like survey 10 businesses and happen to find the six that got attacked.

They surveyed 6,000 businesses. So this is a real survey of a real allotment of small businesses and it's a real risk. So if you're saying Uhoh, um, I might be in trouble, but they won't get me 'cause I'm too small. You, you're wrong. And if you're saying,

Hmm,

but what do I have that they would want? What I have isn't that valuable?

No, you're wrong. And I'll explain. They could have access to all of your accounts. Think about if they got your bank accounts. They the bad guys, just whoever they is, think if they could apply for credit cards in your name. 'cause they have all of your information. Think about if they could apply for loans in your name if they had all of your information.

That's pretty scary. But that's not even the scariest part. Think about if they had access to your CRM. Now they have the names, emails, addresses, phone numbers, credit cards. Of all your clients. Now that is scary. And let's just make this nightmare even scarier. Let's pretend Steve Glenn is my client, and I send an email.

I send an email to Steve, Hey Steve, that $1,500 you owe me. Can you, can you click here to pay it? And Steve does. And where does the money go to the bad guys? How do you explain that to your client? How do you repair the trust even though it's not your fault? Yeah. You might be able to refund them. Yeah. You might be able to explain it away and maybe they're really cool and they understand, but what happened to your relationship?

What happened to your trust if that happened? It's nightmare juice. It's terrifying and it gets even worse. Sorry. It does. Not only are your relationships hosed. Then you get an email. 'cause all of this stuff might be happening before you even realize that you've been compromised. Then you get an email that you've been locked out of everything and the email's clear, Hey, guess what?

Gimme 10 grand. Or you can't come back into all of your things and 10 grand, a $10,000 ransom. It's kind of getting off easy. What if the number was 25,000? What if the number was 50,000? What would you do? This is happening. 59% of small businesses are getting this. So what would you do? Be a really tough choice.

So Pat, what can we do about it? I'm glad you asked. You're, you're really insightful. I needed someone to ask that question. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. You gotta back up everything immediately. First of all, you have a backup of all your stuff. And if you say, well, I'm on Google Cloud, that's good enough, right?

Hmm, no, it might be backed up on Google Cloud, but if your Google count is compromised and you can't get in, you could be in trouble. They always used to tell me two backups, one in the cloud, one in a physical location offline. Now the physical lo location offline, that's not as trendy as it used to be used to be, but it is still pretty smart.

So Backblaze or some other backup source, you gotta have another copy of all of your data. The other thing that's recommended, two, two-factor author authorization, two FA, you gotta have two-factor authorization on everything. Someone wants to change your password, someone wants to log into your bank account, someone wants to get into your stripe, someone wants to get into your CRM like gen head.

Terrific. CRM. You need to have two FA on everything. You should be using a password manager that gives you those crazy pants passwords, the one with all the letters and numbers and symbols and things you'll never remember, which is good. You shouldn't be able to remember your password. These password managers are supposed to make it difficult.

All of this cyber hygiene is really kind of important, so you gotta take it seriously. And the last thing I would recommend is cyber insurance. You've already got business insurance. If you're a consultant or a coach like me, you've probably got errors and omissions already. That's awesome. You should also carry a cyber policy, especially if you have credit cards, customer information, anything sensitive from people collected into A CRM.

It's not fun to pay. It's not super expensive, but it's way better than getting zapped. So your friend, hi, I'm here, is telling you. Do this before it happens to you because it's happening to 59% of small business owners in the last year alone. Take it seriously, get busy and act now before it's too late. It sounded like one of those late night commercials act now before it's too late.

Cyber stuff. I wasn't doing that, but it just came out that way. Oh, hey, cool. And Steve says he just paid that $1,500 invoice. Thanks, Steve. I appreciate that. I hope that money shows up in my account and not the hackers. We'll find out together. But Steve, you're a good dude. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. Coming up, we're gonna do something special because we have an idea Slam Standing by Paul Moki, simple Endurance coaching. Great guy. He's on the air with us. And the idea Slam is gonna be fun 'cause we've got folks tuned in and we're chatting up a storm in the chat and we're gonna be able to collaborate with one another on Paul's behalf.

If you want to come on the idea slam, click on the QR code. Reserve your time and we'd love to have you on the show. Before we get to Paul, let's talk about Gen Head. Businessing is sponsored by Gen Head Scale Systems, not Chaos. They are built for early stage businesses. Gen Head systems are designed for founders and solopreneurs and lean teams like you who need real momentum, not complex tools that require a full-time operator.

Everything is streamlined, practical, and easy to act on immediately. One system replaces 10 disconnected tools instead of juggling CRMs and automations and content tools and follow-ups and reporting in all these other places. Gen Head just makes it clear and easy. It's it's just one system, so there's less chaos, clearer data, and better execution.

Learn more about Gen Head right now. Visit them@genhead.com, gen head.com. Their logo is on the screen. Nikki's with us this morning. She's the president of the company. Thanks for coming by Nikki, and for scanning that code. To learn more about Gen Head, they're a fantastic partner and producer of Businessing with Pat Miller.

Okay, it is Idea slam time. Can you feel it? Be excited. This is the interactive portion of the show and what's fun about it is that in an idea Slam. You get a chance to get something that's just so rare, objective feedback. I can't tell you how many people try and run their business without ever asking anyone except chat, GPT for their opinion.

And spoiler. If you ask chat GPT for its opinion, it's gonna tell you it's a good idea. Should I jump off this bridge? Hell yeah, bro. Thanks. Chat, GBT. So when you have a big business decision to make or something that's going on in the business and you're wondering, huh, should I do this? Where do you turn Tough to know where to go.

That's why the idea Slam is here. The QR code is on the screen. We would love to have you come on the show and say hello. We're gonna welcome our guest today, Paul Ky Paul. Hello sir. How are you friend?

Hey Pat, I am doing well and yourself?

I'm great. Thanks for coming on today. I really appreciate it. I always wanna start with telling people who you are and what you do, and then we'll get to the slam image.

Well, my name's Paul Wolski. I run symbol endurance coaching. I am a coach, endurance sport coach for cyclists, runners, and triathletes who are, um, who have goals of some kind, um, bucket list goals, adventure goals, something they they want to accomplish, and we help them accomplish those goals through training plans, yoga and strength training.

Very cool. And how long have you been doing it?

Um, full-time for six years. Um, part-time for a lot more than that.

Very cool. And you're a rider yourself, you're an athlete yourself?

I, I am a cyclist myself. I do a lot of gravel racing and, um, get out there quite a bit. I am, you know, a trainer, trainer in the, in the wintertime when it's cold and snowing or cross country skiing.

Very cool. Alright, well you're here for a reason. There's something that we get to dig on. Tell us the challenge or the opportunity, something that you're building. How can we help you today?

Yeah, pat, um, ever since, you know, I got started, I have been focusing on niching down, um, my, my appeal to other cyclists and or runners or triathletes and I have focused on kind of the, the everyday cyclists and, and runners and triathletes and trying to help those people accomplish their goals.

I did as you just talked about, talk, talk with my chat, GBT and I, I actually used Gen Head as well and, and loved the product. Um, and we had a long conversation about my marketing and one of the things it suggested was to, um, niche down even further to simply gravel racing. Mm-hmm. And because that's what I do a lot of, that's where I travel a lot to, I talk to a lot of people and it's a very small niche.

Um, I did get a, uh, an email from my web developer saying that maybe that was too small of a niche because Google looks at the title of your website. So my question is, how best do I position myself to bring more people into my pipeline? Should I drill down very specifically, you know, 40 to 50-year-old gravel racers?

Um, should I focus on, continue to focus on everyday athletes? Should I broaden it simply to endurance athletes? So I'm looking for some feedback from you on that.

Great question. And those of you in the chat, we'd love to have your feedback as well. So drop any ideas you might have for Paul in the chat.

Let's start with what does success look like? How many athletes do you need to have a thriving coaching business? What does success look like

between 30 and 40 athletes?

30 and 40 athletes.

Mm-hmm.

Got it. And are there enough gravel racers that see you as a trusted authority for them all to be that 30 to 40 clients?

I, I would say yes. I'm, I'm working on that becoming the authority.

Mm-hmm. Okay. How many other gravel racing coaches are there? That we are getting Pretty narrow there.

Yeah. There. There are a lot of endurance sport coaches. Whether there's specific gravel coaches, I don't know. But gravel in terms of growth in the cycling scene has, has just exploded because that's what many people are doing right now.

Okay. So there's definitely a market for that.

Alright. So there's a market. You've got the available inventory to serve these people. What does a gravel coach teach you that a normal coach doesn't? Mm-hmm. Why would someone wanna work only with a gravel coach? What's the transformation you hear me say all the time?

What's the transformation you provide? What's the transformation of working with a gravel specialist that just a regular old endurance coach wouldn't know?

I think between fueling and strength training and learning the nutritional. And equipment. And you know, gravel races tend to be three to 12 hours long.

And so they require a different set of skills and fitness requirements for the, um, for the individual. Okay. I wanna ask a kind of probing question. And you don't have to use real numbers if you don't want to, but are you charging enough if you need 40 of these people to be happy? Yeah. That's a good, you really need, 'cause this is a very specialized area.

Yeah. And if you tell someone that I'm the world's greatest, uh, I'm a golfer, I specialize in teaching you how to hit the driver. So the people that have a problem hitting the driver would go to a coach that's a specialist in hitting the driver, because that's a very specialized area and I would pay great money to have someone help me with that.

So if someone's, uh, uh, specifically a gravel coach. Are you charging enough to be in that special little area? Because Michael asked a question in the chat, do we know how many gravel rider want to get better? We know there are millions of endurance athletes that wanna get better. So are you charging enough that you need 30 of them to be happy?

Hmm. Yeah. That's a good question. I raised my rates, you know, last year you had the challenge of, of raising our rates to make sure that we were charging enough.

Mm-hmm.

And I raised them to a level that I thought was commiserate with my, um, commensurate rather, that's the better word, commensurate with my, um, experience and my education.

Um, and I thought that it was pretty good. Um, so I think I'm getting to that point where I could charge more, but I think that that's a valid point that I might be looking at raising my rates.

You said something and I share this only because I heard it, not 'cause I'm picking on you. You set your rates based on your experience.

Mm-hmm.

Not the way to set your rates.

Okay.

Set your rates based on the value of the transformation you provide. If you have the experience to have someone go from fifth place to first place, if you have the experience to help them score personal bests this season, what did they value that transformation as the conversation would go? Paul, I know you love riding your bike on gravel. I love it just as much as you do. I've done everything with my training and my coaching to make sure that I make gravel riders faster. What is it worth for you to finish first? What is it worth to have a personal best? And they may not know that number, but I'm asking you as a coach, talking to these people, how badly do they want to improve and is that in line with a higher rate?

Because are they looking at your resume or are they looking at the results you provide?

I think it's a combination of both. Um, but I definitely think that there is, that transformation could be more valuable. Absolutely.

Something to consider. Mm-hmm. We've got some great chat, uh, questions coming into the chat here.

Uh, okay. So let's see. We want to go to Barbara first. Barbara asks, would you consider expanding to include younger writers, which may keep you in the same vertical of gravel riders, but now you're talking to adults and kids that are aspiring in gravel? Is that a thing?

Yes. Um, I am coaching right now, um, probably half a dozen, well, probably what, nine different junior riders who are, you know, who are plus some riders who are in their twenties.

Um, junior riders being typically under 18.

Mm-hmm.

Um, some of whom are getting into gravel as well. So yes, I can expand that. Um, and not just masters riders, but junior riders as well,

and I wonder if that's that team concept.

Yeah.

Team, team Paul for masters Team Paul for kids or however they want to be addressed.

But you come up with a branded, you know, simple endurance or, or you come up with a team name. So you sound like a Formula One house that has different racing cars, but it's all the same team feel, uh, both for kids that are coming up for twenties and for masters that way you are the gravel guy, but you have different audiences of younger, middle aged, older, but you never have to come off of, um, the dot of being a gravel person.

Nikki asked a great question. What's working for you currently? Are you getting most of your leads from your newsletter, your referrals? Where are the leads coming from at the moment?

Yeah. You know, that's one of the questions that I had for you is, you know, I have a newsletter that I'm working on growing and that has been a priority.

I've been, I have a gravel, um, guy, a gravel guide that I use as a lead magnet. Mm-hmm. And that has been, and, and I've been doing some Facebook ads to try to, you know, uh, improve the number of, of, uh, or increase the number of, of people in my newsletter. Um, most of my, of my leads now, I wouldn't say most, I would say half come from advertising and newsletter, and half come from referrals.

Okay. So the newsletter is great because that's an owned audience. Mm-hmm. Every time you get someone on the newsletter, you get to keep on hitting them over and over again. And even if the open rate is 30 or 40%. That's free reach that you get to, you get to go out there and share that transformation week after week.

Michael asked a question in the chat, which is a good one. What is the general percentage of endurance racers who invest in coaching? There's a hundred people in a race, how many of them have a coach?

Yeah, that's, that is a really interesting question and one that goes, I think directly to the pricing that I have.

Excuse me. Um, you know, I don't know that number, and I think that that's a number that's, that we're trying to learn more about and trying to figure out, you know. Are there different tiers of coaching that can be offered to different gravel racers? Can I offer a, a full custom package to one? Can I offer an AI driven platform to another?

Mm-hmm. Is there, are there different levels? You know, are there simply training plans? And what I'm trying to do in my newsletter is offer those three, plat three, um, different ways of, of coming into the system so that there's, you know, a simple training plan here. You can buy the training plan and go from there.

And I think the visual, and if I had my whiteboard here, I'd show it. All of those things can be aligned. So let's, let's give you back to what I'm thinking here. Can you go that narrow? Yes. Do you need to broaden? No. And success may be go going even more narrow. You're not simple endurance coaching. You're simply gravel coaching.

You are not talking about helping you. Uh, you know, with all of your diet and sleep, all you're saying is go fast on gravel. That's what I do. Hi, I'm Paul. I help you go fast on gravel. That's it. And if you wanna go fast on gravel, click here. How do you go fast on Gravel? The things you just mentioned, that's the funnel.

At the very top of the funnel is what you give away for free to prove that you're a guy that knows how to go fast on gravel. Every week I share two tips to help you go fast on gravel and achieve your personal best. Oh, you like me, you want a little more? Now we start building the trust through the funnel.

So we're, we've got a funnel at the top is the free stuff, and the middle is the paid. A little at the bottom is the real stuff. So at the top, you've got that newsletter Go fast on gravel. The next layer down maybe is the AI powered coaching or. A little bit more, or you do group calls once a month so you can start building that trust.

But then once they know, once they've proven, oh my gosh, Paul is my secret to a personal best, Paul is my guy that's gonna help me go fast on gravel at the bottom. That's where the one-on-one coaching is. And then your job, through your advertising, through your newsletters, through all of your outreach, is to get as many people on the top of the funnel as possible.

Thousand people going to the top 10 come out the bottom. I dunno what the numbers are. Nikki's the marketing goddess, she would be able to tell us. But you need a lot at the top to have a lot come out the bottom. But by the time they get to the bottom, they've been reading, reading your newsletter, they've been seeing you at races, they've been getting your AI powered, you know, virtual Paul.

Now they're ready for the real thing. Whew. That's where you've got 10 clients, you're charging them team Paul rates, but they are, you're training with them every day. You're doing virtual rides with them. They've got text access to you like you are doing the stuff that really helps them feel like you know what it takes to get them to where they need to go.

So that's how I would align it is, and again, you are the expert in the space, so I'm not trying to over niche you if it doesn't feel comfortable, but if you're gonna go for it, go for it. Don't say you are the endurance coach for all racers and do nothing but talk about gravel. If you're gonna talk about gravel, be the gravel guy.

And if it doesn't work, you can always come back out of it. So that's like hearing what everyone's saying, hearing what you are saying and not saying. That's what I think. Okay. So I just talk for like three minutes straight. Got really excited. I'm gonna shut up now. Does that land, do you have questions about that?

Tell me about it.

It lands and here's, here's a, a wrinkle to throw into the mix. Okay. And I'd like your opinion on this. I do have associate coaches. I have three other coaches that I work with. One who does trail running, one who does mo two who do mountain biking. So the comment was made from, um, Alexander at, um, layer league computers, uh, the layer Lee, um, site who does my site.

It's like if I narrow it down to just gravel racing, I may exclude the trail running and the mountain biking. And that's where I start getting myself all confused. If this was just myself, I can see narrowing down even further to, as you're talking about. What do you think about that?

My business is technically called small step solutions.

That's my parent company. I, my doing business as is the small business owners community. Your company could be simple endurance coaching, and now you've got three domains, simply gravel, simply Mountain, simply Trail. And you have these people who are your junior coaches. They could run the same program that you're doing.

And especially right now as you've been playing with small business GPT mm-hmm. You can give each one of those coaches their own ecosystem of newsletter, AI powered coaching, full blown coaching so that every time Paul shows up, he's the gravel guy. Every time she shows up, she's the trail riding person.

This is the mountain bike, whatever it might be. But that it, it, it sounds counterintuitive. Should I niche too much? No. Over it. Like, go crazy.

Yeah.

But think about a Google search right now. You are saying to someone that's gonna ride the big race in April, I'm just making this up. They're thinking, damn, I've got two months to get fast.

I'm gonna put into the Google search endurance coach for biking. Or are they gonna say gravel bike coach? Like which one are they gonna search?

Yeah,

and the more narrow you can get, I'm a big fan of going narrow for sure. Okay. We've got a lot of comments in the chat here. Nikki taught me this, so let's have her share it with everybody.

Are the leads coming in gravel related from your ads? If you're doing meta campaigns, I would priorit prioritize and capturing as much attention as possible through your organic socials. Cool. Entertain the masses. This is the thing. Entertain the masses, educate the interest, sell to the committed. She left that part off at the end.

So by entertaining the masses, you're talking about the newsletter. Here's what you can learn about being faster on gravel. When they're interested, you sell them a low dollar product. Like the AI tool or something that's a little bit of you. Then the committed, those are the ones that are on team Paul or, or whatever you might wanna position it as.

So I think you could go a lot of different ways with it. And then Michael's asking, what is the compelling why of being the gravel guy? So there you go. Michael's a a a, Michael's a gravel writer and he is like, alright Paul, I love being a gravel writer. Why are you a gravel coach? Give us the 30 seconds.

Why do you coach gravel out of everything?

I have a lot of experience with gravel. I'm reasonably good at it, you know, personally. Um, but I know how to get you faster and more comfortable racing gravel for anywhere from three to 12 hours.

Hmm. Is there an insight that you have that others don't? Is there an angle that you bring everyone trains in this way, but my writers trade this way and on gravel, that's what works do.

Do you have a, is there an angle that you bring to this that's different than eat your broccoli?

No, I don't think so. I think my angle is more my background as a, as a teacher and as a psych, you know, doing cycling for 40 years. I think there's a different angle of, of, um, how I go about the coaching and how I go about programming and the relationship that I build with my athletes.

Okay. I'm the guy that it's, I'm the guy that's gonna get you to get on the bike. I'm the guy that can communicate tough conversations and hard to understand concepts simply because I used to be a teacher. I'm the guy that can be the voice in your head that makes you want to keep riding and push faster.

I'm the guy that loves it as much as you do. So we can share this experience together. The last thing we'll share, and we can't hatch this all today. I hope this is helping.

Oh yeah.

The, the last thing that we need to get in your business. I think you need the ownable idea.

What

do you mean by that? Ownable idea is I believe that small businesses, lonely and hard.

You've heard me say that. I believe that we can all work better and faster, and I believe that we shouldn't have to work five days a week. It's a relic. It's a bad habit, and it's something we're doing out of obligation, not out of reason. So my ownable idea is, hi, I'm Pat Miller. The Fridays off guy, you should only work four days a week.

Why? Because we can. Why? Because time is compensation. Why? When we started our business, we didn't wanna work 60 hours a week. Why? Because AI agents and smart behavioral choices will allow you to only work four days a week. Why every small business owner would kill to be able to do that. That's my ownable idea.

So you need to reflect on what do you teach? How do you teach? Why do you teach? What pisses you off? What do people do that you think is wrong? What do writers go, oh my gosh, I've never heard that before. What's the thing that you share with someone that makes them go literally faster? Reflect on all that.

Chew on all that. Because when I said to you, why do you teach gravel?

Mm-hmm.

You need to have something similar explode out of you. We just talked about it with Eddie Bauer. I used to be a teacher. Cool. That's not what I'm buying and I'm not being disrespectful. It's very helpful. You used to be a teacher.

No, but that's not a, that's not a purchase point. Why gravel? Because I've been studying the difference between trail and gravel and I, I modified my training to make you go faster on gravel. And there's a different type of diet you have to have to race for 12 hours. And I've done everything tuned just for the gravel rider.

'cause it's different than mountain, it's different than trail and ev. You see what I mean? You gotta have an ownable idea. Mm-hmm. Angle and what you're doing and that. I think it all comes together.

That makes a lot of sense. And I will have I, I will have to do some thinking on that. 'cause I don't know what my ownable idea is right now.

I think you need to articulate it. But I bet if we got a whiteboard out and really started going through the questions, it would be something that surfaces and it will become your ownable idea when you can just let it explode out of you when it's something you really, really believe in and then it's a real differentiator.

So we covered a lot of ground here. Is there anything left that you want to ask about? I know that we threw a bunch of stuff at you, but I think your question of. Did I niche too much? No, I don't think so. And you may be able to go further. Yeah, that's, that's my answer. Any other questions or comments or sarcastic remarks you wanna share?

No. Thank you Pat. I really appreciate your time. I have a lot of good notes here and, uh, um, I look forward to pursuing this.

Oh, heck yeah. And let's not forget our MVPs in the chat as well. Yeah. Gave some really great feedback and Michael adds a really great touchpoint, uh, in our network. There's a guy named Eric Clark, and I can introduce you if you don't know him, but Eric started podcasting and he started with the okays hunter.

His whole concept is go out and hunt because it's fun. Don't go out and hunt because it's a competition. You can just be the okayest hunter and it's great. That's his ownable idea. Then he made the Okayest Fisher and he has the okay as to a whole bunch of different stuff. I think he has Okayest golfer now or whatever, but he is got a bunch of ideas around that ownable idea.

We're doing this for fun, it's not a competition. So if your ownable idea is something that springs from, I'm Paul and I hope you go fast on gravel. How? Like what's the point of view, what's the angle? And I think if you nail that down, uh, you're gonna be in really good shape. So thanks for coming on Paul.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you Pat. I appreciate your time.

Awesome. Paul Orlowski, simple endurance coaching or will he be simple endurance coaching by the next time we talk with him, we'll find out. Okay. So was that fun? Is it only me that finds that incredibly fun? I find I love doing that. So thank you everyone in the chat that wanted to participate and gave us some great ideas.

I really appreciate you and if you're sitting there thinking, Hmm, I wonder if Pat could help me, I wonder if I should go on the show. Yes. Yes, the QR code is now on the screen. Click it and when you do, you can pick the day and time that you wanna come on the air and we can jam on your business at the same time.

And here's a little bit of a secret you all know about Paul's business now, so it's kind of free advertising while we work on on your business as well. So snip the code and come on the show. I would love to participate and brainstorm on your behalf in just a little bit. I gotta hop in the car and get over to Madison.

We're going over to do our small business owners community Meetup in Madison at the Am Fam Dream Bank, two to four this afternoon. We'll talk more about that in just one moment. Businessing is sponsored by ENG G oh, they're so cool. Eng G is the marketing engine for your small business. They make it so easy to tell your business story even when things feel uncertain or busy or overwhelming or annoying.

Eng G's gonna help you get it done. It's an AI powered marketing engine. Get it. Eng engine that learns all about your business, plugs into all of your tools, and then puts your marketing almost on autopilot. Imagine having help telling your story. Imagine if Paul could go to Enji and say, okay, I'm the gravel guy. Help me make this social media. And it helps you tell your story at scale. It schedules everything for you. It's got a Canva plugin. It's awesome. We're using it here at the small business owners community. I encourage you to use it as well. Enji gave us a screaming deal for you to try it out too. A hundred percent risk free.

Two weeks free. Try out NG using the link that's on your screen so you think I'm full of it. You, you think it won't work for you. Try it. And if it's wrong, you can cancel after two weeks, not get charged anything and, and yell at me. I don't think that's gonna happen. Then they'll give you two months with a discount, and then it's a whopping $29 a month to make your social media headache go away.

The software. It is awesome. Use the QR code that's on the screen or in the chat. ng.co/sbo ng.co/s boc. NG is solving the I do my own marketing problem. Thank you Ng, for being a part of the show. Okay. It's almost time to go. We get to go to Madison today, super great Madison, Wisconsin, small Business Owners Community Meetup from two to 4:00 AM Fam Dream Bank.

And by the way, there's something really exciting I need to tell you. And oh, don't let me forget to tell you about the domain name that I got. Two things do not. Let me forget those two things. The email that I got and the domain name that I got. Okay. Just let me finish telling you about Madison two to 4:00 AM Fam Dream Bank.

Networking event for owners. Only small business owners are getting together. Then an in-person idea slam. So if you enjoyed what we did, we're doing it again today, two to four and I'll be all warmed up, so we'll be good to go. It's your chance to join the small business owners community. And what's so great about the SBOC, it is $19 a month and inside this owner's only community, we've got our tech hotline, our legal hotline idea slams couple of times a month, coworking couple of times a week.

And a supportive community of small business owners that understand what you are going through. They're here to give you trusted feedback. They're here to tell you the truth 'cause they lived it. Links on the screen. Join the community. It's $19 a month. Okay, before we leave these two things I gotta share, I gotta share first I got a domain name.

I got a domain name, alright. Four years ago, I think it was four years ago. I don't remember who did it. So if it's you, I'm trying to remember. It's you someone uttered the word words. Don't grow it alone. And it has been, if there was a flag that I would carry around, it would just say, don't grow it alone.

Small business owners community, don't grow it alone. It has been the rallying cry for everything that we do. So we get this awesome domain name or name, and I go to register it with the U-S-P-T-O, and we actually get the federal trademark. Don't grow it alone. Yes. So what's the next thing you do? I'm gonna go get the domain name.

Don't grow it alone. Dot com was gone. So since 2021, I've had in my to-do list every year at the expiration date. Check on the domain. Check on the domain, check on the domain. Every year, whoever had it kept on renewing it,

it came up yesterday, Hey, check on the domain, ding, ding, ding. Let show off the guns. Don't grow it alone. Dot com. Yeah, and I share that only because I'm excited. I, I just, I love that phrase, obviously I've always wanted that domain. I don't even know what I'm gonna do with it. I just have it and now it's mine.

And I just feel, I feel all wholesome and full. Don't grow to alone.com. We're gonna do something fun with that soon, but that's really exciting. And then the email that I got, this is also cool on my landing page is a contact us form and 99 times out of a hundred when I get an email from the contact us form, it's, do you need a va?

We're a VA company. Would you like, like it's always trash. Today I got an email saying, I love what you're doing. We don't have a chapter in Sacramento. How about we start a Sacramento California chapter

Now? That's cool. That's cool. I would love to do that. Michael says, what about the URL? See, don't grow it alone. Dot com. Thank you very much. Love it. Okay. This was a really fun show everybody. Thank you for coming on and collaborating with us, Rebecca and Theresa, thanks for volunteering, Paul, of course. Such a good dude for coming on the air and this is your opportunity to come on and play as well.

And just while we're talking about like this show and I'm like telling you all excited I, 'cause I got a stupid domain name. What we just did with Paul is kind of what I wanna do. I have this vision of being able to do that for people that need a second opinion, that need a collaborative group like you to help me.

How much fun would it be to be able to do that? That's the dream, that's the vision for this show. So together, hopefully we can make it come true. That's why I'm doing it every day, because like the domain name says, if you're watching this show, you'd probably just be talking to your cat otherwise. But you had the chance to come on and collaborate with me and collaborate with Paul and hopefully have some fun.

That's why we're doing it. So thanks for Businessing with me today, sponsored by Gen Head and ng, produced by Gen Head. I'm Pat Miller. Thanks for tuning in and I'll see you right here tomorrow at 11 o'clock for Businessing with Pat Miller. Take care.